Priest Accused of Telling Rape Victim: "This is What God's Love Feels Like"

The Catholic Church's preferred method of birht control? Rape little boys.

How do 9 people vote up a bold lie?

How is it that you are still here?

How is it that you are still here?

It's gonna get interesting for those Pious Political Bishops we've seen over the last few days. They jumped into the political glare of the camera and voiced their superiority and authority in all things moral and ethical for the entire country.

Now that they're in the public/political light with their creepy smiles, they can't hide from the hideous baggage hanging around their collective necks - crimes against children that they all have tried to ignore for decades.

These same Bishops are supposed to finally come up with guidelines for priest behavior sometime in 2013 - after twenty-something years in the making... let there be consequences.

Interesting Art...

you say "only 1.5% of Catholic clergy have been accused"

you say "6000 coaches have been tried and found guilty"

tell me Art - how many of the 1.5% of Catholic Priests have been "tried"?

seems the Church has its own agenda on how pedophiles in the Church should be held accountable......not at all!

Notice it's 1.5% of Catholic Clergy and 6000 coaches?

Could it be because if you put a percentage to it then it comes out lower than the clergy?

About how many "Coaches" are in the USA? 1,000,000? Wouldn't be hard to fathom....that would be .06 maybe?

Notice it's 1.5% of Catholic Clergy and 6000 coaches?

Could it be because if you put a percentage to it then it comes out lower than the clergy?

The seeded article cites 200 accused priests in LA alone.

Welcome back to the vine "art"

Are "Art" and "gifflenet" really "sambonner" in a new incarnation?

They all sound pretty much identical to me.

Yes, they are.

"You are as clueless as ever." (indicating that the seeder has known you longer that they show to have been here, since they just signed up.

That comment alone just reminded me of someone else....who? A wood? A brave heart? Hmmmm

Not Drifty?

Braveheart that had a spelling problem?

No. JohnRussell.

Sounds like him, but we really should not be speculating, as much fun as it is >_>. Let's allow Tyler and Sally to take care of it.

I agree with you. Homosexuals, like priests, account for very few of the sexual abuse cases - - and homosexuals, like priests, are being portrayed as the criminals by the media and with people with a bad agenda.

It's a point well taken and it is the same point that goues onn the publics school sysytem also. Our middle school was forced to accept a teacher of sexually abusing a child from another school. It's the same scenario in both cases and both have to be stopped

...priest deserve to have their collars ripped off (among other things)...

The church has gone out of its way in an attempt to force everyone to live by its outdated edicts. But has refused, or even to discuss, the idea of bringing back the practice of castrating their priests. This practice would certainly put an end to child molestations, as well as prove the priests' complete devotion to their faith.

Perhaps we should all write to the Pope demanding the return of this practice. Can anyone guess what his excuse will be to deny re-instating this formerly accepted ritual?

Bonking kids is not OK. The rest of your argument is just as rediculous

Bonking kids is not OK.

But in the priesthood all it gets you is a transfer to a new pedophile playground. The church has been doing that for over 100 years, never solved the problem, just kept it quiet.

"The most bloodthirsty religion". Back that statement up with some facts. Let's look at Muslims. Let's look at the tenants of Sharia Law. They scare you because you don't know very much about the Catholic Faith

UM. Lets see. I was forced to attend a catholic church until I was age 8, when my mother finally allowed me to stop going with my fathers mother. The one that used to draw blood by pinching us to get us to behave. She did worse to my father and his siblings, and so did her husband, my grandfather, until his death. Then take into consideration that my step grandmother is catholic, and was more abusive to her kids and grandkids than anyone I have ever met. She messed my step dad up BAD, and all in the name of her religion. Yes, she said, and I quote, "God wants you to suffer for your sins" Everything was a sin. I should have said "ONE of the most", I'll give you that, but I assure you, they are and have always been, bloodthirsty. If you dont believe that, maybe you dont know as much as you thought you did. They did cause much bloodshed. To deny this is to deny that any change in the "Catholic" doctrine brought about many deaths to many people who were innocent to the fullest extent, and all because they didnt change their faith to that of what the kings faith was changed to, for his own unhonorable reasons. NICE.

The Just War Doctrine makes it ok to use force against others to pave the way for peace. Was killing tons of innocent men, women, and children a way to pave the way to peace? Was the witch burnings of many people who were not violent, just believe what they were taught to believe, justified under this Doctrine? NO. It goes against the whole principle of Just War.

OH! And that check you have was an accident by me, I missed reply.

Not "people" only Catholic priests. Some people want fair, but only their definition of fair. That's why definitions are changed to fit an argument

There is a core of 30 people or so at this site that are fanatic anti-Catholics and will never let truth or fairness get in the way of their hate and bigotry.

How would you know gifflenet, you joined today & so far have only commented on this article?¿?

I know a lot of things

Okay, here's how it looks to me so far:

Gifflenet=sambonner, and probably Art-5208548, as well.

How about expert assessment from folks with more experience with this guy?

And to make it more fun for you AC, sambonner was a re-reg created by JohnRussel the day he was suspended. Upon finding them both (same person) were banned & now he re-regs under various names over & over again accomplishing nothing other than spewing crap & actually turning people away from others that actually believe the same as he did/does, they just don't make an ass of themselves & use facts to try and get their point across.

So I gathered.

I first ran across him in his sambonner guise a few weeks back. He essentially trashed a good and worthwhile thread on theism/atheism by swooping in on statements and splitting hairs, while pretending to be discussing in good faith.

After sambonner was banned I ran across references to him in one of the meta threads, and I've become fascinated with the guy. Whoever he is in real life, he clearly has lots of free time. He also must be a fast typist - he churns stuff out by the carload.

Upon finding them both (same person) were banned & now he re-regs under various names over & over again accomplishing nothing other than spewing crap & actually turning people away from others that actually believe the same as he did/does, they just don't make an ass of themselves & use facts to try and get their point across.

People can make any point they like. It is free speech. Most of the people on seeds like this deserve absolutely ZERO courtesy or fair play from anyone. People who obsess about the Catholic Church and the priests are generally habitual liars who are using the issue to foster bigotry against religion. Identities, reregs , and all other considerations of that nature are irrelevant. People are not going to be allowed to lie without being confronted about it, simply to preserve your tender feelings

now he re-regs under various names over & over again accomplishing nothing other than spewing crap & actually turning people away from others that actually believe the same as he did/does, t

JohnRussell was a hotheaded nut that couldn't argue like an adult, and he was waaaaaaaaaaaay too invested in defending child rapists. Maybe he's a priest....

And to make it more fun for you AC, sambonner was a re-reg created by JohnRussel the day he was suspended

Wow! What a LOSER someone must be in life to come back and invest so much time trolling as a rereg on NV.

We should really pity such a poor unfortunate soul.

We should really pity such a poor unfortunate soul.

"we" should stop lying about the Catholic Church.

How many times are we going to listen to the same instances being retold over and over again?

Perhaps when the Catholic Church stops hiding the pedophiles, aids them in moving onto new territory, obeys the law that requires them to refer cases of suspected pedophilia to the police, and stops hiding those they know are offenders?

So it's "sick" to speak up about institiutionalized abuse hidden up for decades (if not centuries?)

Interesting.

The people who are desperate are the right-wing morality scolds who as it turns out have a treasure-trove of dirty secrets of their own.

many times are we going to listen to the same instances being retold over and over again?

How many times do I have to listen to these same people who covered up child abuse and hid the perpetrators lecture me about my morality over and over and over again?

How many threads have you responded to on Newsvine about child sex abuse outside the Catholic Church?

There are many millions of instances outside of the Church that we hear little, if anything, about. Why is that?

People don't care about child sexual abuse. The sole exception was the Penn State scandal. If it had not involved the all time winningest college football coach you wouldn't have heard about it that time either.

All you hear about is the Catholic Church because the political left hates the Catholic Church for opposing abortion and gay marriage. It's all there is to it.

How many times are we going to listen to the same instances being retold over and over again?

Until priests stop raping children and the church stops hiding it.

People don't care about child sexual abuse.

Speak for yourself. Most human beings DO care, which is precisely why we talk about it - to shed light on it and hopefully to STOP it. It's sad that you admit you don't care about children being raped, but apparently care enough about the rapists to defend them.

While the sexual abuse in our public schools, perpetrated by non-priest educators go unscrutinized. Unions perhaps

People don't care about child sexual abuse.

just because you dont care about it doesnt mean people dont.

:|

All you hear about is the Catholic Church because the political left hates the Catholic Church for opposing abortion and gay marriage.

Well when the Catholic church stops hiding these perverts and makes sure they're prosecuted for their crimes, the "politcal left" might stop "hating" the Catholic church.

If these hypocrit wanna be popes were as outraged over the rapists among them as they are over contraception, maybe more would take them seriously.

I love when people rush to the defense of the Catholic church when it comes to the media attention we pay to all the kid-f*cking and cover-ups taking place.

Yup, there's cetainly abuse taking place all over...however not all is connected to a veritable kid-f*cking franchise like the Catholic Church has been so adequately documented as being an unparalleled leader in. There are so many cases world wide that at this point one must think that this must be a matter of pride for the institution.

There are FAR MORE instances of child sex abuse outside the Church than inside it. The ignorance perpetrated on seeds such as this is nothing short of astonishing.

Of course there are more instances outside the church...mathmatically that would make sense, but that's a lame and weak defense.

But I challenge you to name any other organization that has as much social, poltical or religious influence, where the endless rape of children is as protected as it is by the Catholic church.

Care to tell us what other organizations are protecting rapists?

"There are FAR MORE instances of child sex abuse outside the Church than inside it. The ignorance perpetrated on seeds such as this is nothing short of astonishing."

Yeah, across all of society as a whole maybe, sure. But not inside a single organization.

The problem is so pervasive one could objectively begin to think that the church is nothing more than a criminal franchise hiding behind the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. Because I can tell you one thing for sure:

If Burger King suddenly became as famous for kid-f*cking and cover-ups as they are for flame-broiled burgers, I wonder how long it would it would take before people were like "OK, no more Burger Kings". As it is the Establishment Clause is the only thing keeping this festering cesspool of iniquity on its feet.

It is obvious that seeds such as this are BASED on anti-Catholicism and bigotry. OBVIOUS. And it is essentially politically motivated.

The problem is so pervasive one could objectively begin to think that the church is nothing more than a criminal franchise hiding behind the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.

This utter nonsense and pure bigotry.

JohnRussell is back.

DNFTT.

"This utter nonsense and pure bigotry."

No, it is objective criticism based on the available observable facts. When presented with another organzation who's actions mirror those of the Catholic Church in severity and scale I will offer up the same criticism. To date there are none that I know of.

You childlike approach to debating is noted. Let me know when you are able to punch your way out of a paper bag.

"This utter nonsense and pure bigotry."

No, it is objective criticism based on the available observable facts.

The objective facts are that priests commit child sexual abuse no more than men in general.

Rereg - don't feed. Report.

Your fear overcomes you.

So, does the John Jay College study tells us then, as one often reads, that 4 percent of American priests are pedophiles? Not at all. According to the research, 78.2 percent of the accusations involved minors who had advanced beyond puberty. Having sexual relations with a 17-year-old is certainly not a beautiful thing, and much less so for a priest, but it is not pedophilia. Therefore, only 958 American priests were accused of true pedophilia over 52 years, 18 per year. Convictions were much rarer, between one and two per year.

There are more references to priest pedophilia in one day on Newsvine then there were actual occurrences of it nationwide in a given year.

"The objective facts are that priests commit child sexual abuse no more than men in general."

Maybe, but not all men have the full weight of a global religious entity to cover it up, shufflle them elswhere and obfuscate their deeds from those who would seek to hold them accountable for their actions. That's a distinction which I find is intellectually dishonest to ignore.

You may say I'm a "bigot" but I've said absolutely nothing about Catholic people or what they believe. I have made no disparraging remarks whatsoever. I have simply addressed a matter of criminal behaviour (of public record, no less) within an organization. Thats not "bigotry".

Arguing with someone that would defend the act of pedophilia is not really worth the time.

You may say I'm a "bigot" but I've said absolutely nothing about Catholic people or what they believe. I have made no disparraging remarks whatsoever. I have simply addressed a matter of criminal behaviour (of public record, no less) within an organization. Thats not "bigotry".

You said the Catholic Church is nothing more than a criminal enterprise . That is ignorant bigotry.

This is why I prefer not to collapse comments (unless they are personal attacks, or blatantly racist). This guy has no idea how much damage he's doing to his own cause. He might as well try to defend the holocaust. But, I suspect if we wait long enough, we may get that as well.

How many seeds have you posted about child sexual abuse in public schools ar elsewhere outside the Catholic Church? Let's see the list.

All you want to do is attack the Church and facilitate attacks on the Church. It is obvious. Just because you can attract the core of ignorant people on NV who flock to the opportunity to attack religion proves nothing about the worthiness of the seed. It is a bigot magnet.

This is why I prefer not to collapse comments (unless they are personal attacks, or blatantly racist). This guy has no idea how much damage he's doing to his own cause. He might as well try to defend the holocaust. But, I suspect if we wait long enough, we may get that as well.

Well said, Robert. It's mind blowing how so many catholics defend pedophilia and pedophiliac priests (while having the nerve to try to claim that's not what they are doing). Notice there was NO condemnation of this priest or this action.

"You said the Catholic Church is nothing more than a criminal enterprise . That is ignorant bigotry."

The crimes of the Church are a matter of public record, despite their best attempts to keep it otherwise. When an organization engages in repeated systemic crime, that's a criminal organization. To assert that it is "bigotry" to make note of this fact because the organization is religous in nature, only speeks more to my assertion that the church is hiding behind the Establishment Clause.

What "crimes" have been hidden? Every one of the 5000 victims of the priests was able to press criminal charges at any time they liked.

But, truly, you are not helping yourself. Trying to make the case that Catholic Priests are accused of molesting children only 167 times a year, does not help. You are defending the indefensible.

Regardless, whether anyone else believes or not, the church is expected to represent the highest sense level of love, respect and personal integrity. When they betray this trust, even if it's only 1 priest a year, it's still a betrayal.

These things are stories because of who they are. If only 2 US Senators murdered their constituents every year, they would only represent .000001% of all murders each year, but that would still be a story because it's a betrayal of trust. Your statistics don't help.

Dude... you need to relax, and try to represent the best of what you believe to be true. This stuff truly is not helping you.

Of course it matters, because people who cannot apply perspective forfeit any claim to be taken seriously. You are actually going to try and tell me that if only ONE priest molested a child. it will still represent an unforgivable offense against society? Please, spare me the phony solicitude. Most of the people you have replying to your seed don't care at all about child sexual abuse. If they did they would reply to or start other articles about the 99.75% of child sexual abuse that is NOT perpetrated by priests. I will ask you again, where are those articles on Newsvine. The only time the subject received any attention at all, other than the priests, is when it was on TV 24 hours a day due to Joe Paterno. If that case had been at Podunk State instead of Penn State, you wouldn't have see that case on Newsvine either.

Some people know the facts, and some people are ignorant bigots, and you have attracted the latter.

"What "crimes" have been hidden? Every one of the 5000 victims of the priests was able to press criminal charges at any time they liked."

1.Pedophilia is a crime.

2.Knowing that a crime is happening and doing nothing to stop it is a crime.

3.Knowing that a crime is occuring and actively trying to conceal it is a crime.

(2 and 3 aiding and abetting)

4.Having knowledge of crime ascend multiple levels of a heirarchy and having that heirachy take action to conceal the crime so that it may continue is a crime. (conspiracy)

The fact that these did not remain hidden does not in any way lessen the crimes. If anything the actions of the church only raise the question "what haven't we discovered? What criminality has yet to come out"?

As I write 'em down, I realize I could be describing La Cosa Nostra. I mean how much criminality should be accepted because those who commit the crimes invoke a deity?

I'm with Robert, I'm done here.

It's a rereg troll that has made it a habit to defend pedophiliac priests. he's also never seeded any stories about pedophilia either by priests OR by non-priests, in spite of trying to claim others should do so. No sense in arguing with it.

It's a rereg troll that has made it a habit to defend pedophiliac priests. he's also never seeded any stories about pedophilia either by priests OR by non-priests, in spite of trying to claim others should do so. No sense in arguing with it.

Bonos, your lack of knowledge about this topic speaks for itself. Your comments are virtually fact free every time you open your mouth about this subject.

1.Pedophilia is a crime.

ROFL. Pedophilia is not a crime.

------------------

Irregardless, there is no prosecutable crime when the only witness refuses to press charges.

ROFL. Pedophilia is not a crime.

------------------

Irregardless, there is no prosecutable crime when the only witness refuses to press charges.

irregardless is not a word.

/shrug

Actually, I see many articles on child rape, abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, and every other crime against a child EVERYDAY on Maddads column. He and the child abuse and abductions group post seeds daily, from many places all over the world, if memory serves me. Just FYI.

Okay, I should have known bonos_rama would nail gifflenet.

So, what's the feeling on Art-5208548? Is it just JohnRussell/sambonner/gifflenet lending himself some support in the thread? That's my strong suspicion.

I may have to agree with you on that.

Nah, JohnRussell was the most incompetent person ever. He even believed that pedophilia wasn't a crime, which answers a question I had about him very clearly. Very clearly indeed. He's also the most obvious rereg troll ever.

Nah, JohnRussell was the most incompetent person ever. He even believed that pedophilia wasn't a crime, which answers a question I had about him very clearly. Very clearly indeed. He's also the most obvious rereg troll ever.

"The term "pedophilia" refers to persistent feelings of attraction in an adult or older adolescent toward prepubescent children, whether the attraction is acted upon or not." wikipedia

An "attraction" is not a crime. An act by a pedophile perpetrated against a child is a crime.

Your command of the English language is uh, wobbly.

All right, "gifflenet." Finally.

This is the sort of pedantry that marked your sambonner incarnation. You could have said at the outset what you meant by "pedophilia." And, yes, you are correct, that is what it means. However, as you well know, when the word pedophilia is used in the popular culture it does not mean mere attraction. When people hear or use the term "pedophile priest," they are not talking about a man who has some sort of sexual feelings. They are talking about a man who molests children.

For you to pretend otherwise is dishonest. There is simply no way someone who is as invested in this topic as you are could not be fully aware of this. You have been engaging people in argument and discussion knowing full well that when you said "pedophile" they were hearing "child molester."

We can never know for certain what is in another person's heart. What another person's attractions, impulses, and urges might be can only be known by us indirectly. If you love raspberries, I only know this because you express that to me verbally, or I observe you seeking out raspberries. Likewise, if you feel a sexual attraction to children, I have no means of knowing this directly. Either you express those feelings to me verbally or I observe that you seek out children. Otherwise I do not know and I cannot know.

It does not matter what a person feels. What matters is how they act upon those feelings. What a person might feel is irrelevant, but a person cannot engage in sexual behavior with a child and expect that society will not descend upon them in righteous fury. And if that person is a priest, society will, and should, be also calling down the wrath of whatever gods that priest professes to serve.

Bla bla bla..

I was replying in such a precise way to an individual who elected to try and lecture about the "crimes" of the Catholic Church and then misstates his very first particular.

If you want to be precise with language, why don't you complain when you hear every priest referred to as a pedophile rapist?

The fact is most of the victims were not small children and most of them were not raped. And most of the priests, the great majority of them, could not be clinically referred to as pedophiles.

So take your need for linguistic accuracy onto that stage.

I don't complain when I "hear every priest referred to as a pedophile rapist" because I don't often (ever?) "hear every priest referred to as a pedophile rapist."

The vast majority of priests are decent, kind, worthwhile people, and what their sexual urges might be is entirely irrelevant, so long as they don't act on them.

What you are doing is stirring up arguments using terminology that is sure to inflame, then fall back on weak technical definitions. When people express their outrage at pedophile priests, you know exactly what they're expressing outrage against. You're using a cowardly defense that their terminology is inaccurate.

For what it's worth, if I understand your more coherent comments correctly, I think you may have a case to make, if you'll drop the inept sophistry and just make your case honestly.

The time to be nice to some of these people is long past. When they change and stop lying about the Church, and religion in general, then we can all make nice again. Take Bonos Rama for example. Not a day passes when he isn't lying about religion, Christians and Catholics. I don't think he's gonna stop because someone politely asks him to.

Okay, for the sake of discussion, let's say that's true, and that these other folks are making unfair attacks using untrue statements.

You are a bright guy. No question. It's also clear that you feel very strongly about your faith. Fine. If you want to change anyone’s mind, you have to avoid getting your blood up and thrashing around wildly. And you've got to be intellectually honest.

To take the most recent example, if you are getting everyone all stirred up by saying that it is no crime to be a "pedophile," you're not provoking a legitimate discussion. You're sitting there, all warm and smug, knowing that you know what "pedophile" really means, and that these fools are just wrong, wrong, wrong. So, you let them work themselves into a lather, then you drop the true definition of the word on them, and you prove they're wrong. In that case, all you've accomplished is to make a lot of people think you're a dick. You didn't make your case.

So, let's say your issue is that people are condemning all priests for the actions of a few, or that Roman Catholic priests are being unfairly singled out for blame, or that sexual abuse of children is being used as a convenient weapon by people who hate the church for entirely unrelated reasons, or whatever.

Give some thought to it: What makes you think this? Why do you think this is crystal clear to you, but completely obscure to these other people? Know in advance that there really are some people who for whatever reason do hate the Church, and they will not be convinced. They, in their turn, will not (perhaps cannot) be intellectually honest on this issue. Okay, write them off and don't let them goad you into being foolish and making wild attacks. Or playing word games just to get them frothing at the mouth.

Make your case, and if someone sounds like he or she is trying to engage in reasonable discussion, listen to what they're saying, and address their concern as well as you can. Blow off the people who are just saying the equivalent of “You suck, your church sucks, and priests suck, too,” and focus on the people who seem to be making some effort to understand. Talk to the ones who are arguing on the merits, not the ones just hurling names.

Sometimes, especially when you get into statistics (I don't mean you, personally, I mean any of us), it's easy to fixate on the numbers and not see that, really, they don't demonstrate what you want them to demonstrate. Or that they're not relevant, or whatever.

Example: Say someone buys a frozen dinner and there is a great huge human turd right there in the middle under the plastic wrap. Law enforcement determines that, yes, it was packaged at the factory that way - no tampering by the consumer. Somehow, the factory served up a meal with a human turd in it.

Now, how much good is it going to do to for the company to point out that the turd weighs only 3 ounces, which is less than 0.000001% of the thousands of tons of food they've produced over the years?

Or that it's only one meal out of hundreds of thousands.

Or that no one died from this, while back in 1971 a man had died from vichyssoise that was contaminated with botulism, so of all the contaminated-food deaths since 1971, 100% of them were someone else’s fault.

None of it matters, but it's easy to get wrapped up in the statistics, the numbers, and avoid addressing the issues. If someone is arguing with your numbers, it may be that it doesn’t even matter if your numbers are correct or not – they may just be beside the point.

Some of these people are bashing religion in general. Some are bashing the Church. Some of them are outraged at the betrayal of trust by the Church hierarchy. Some have likely been victims of abuse. It’s an emotional minefield, and you aren’t going to make any headway by making people more upset than they already are.

See what you can do to help correct the unfairness you perceive.

I am willing to listen to people who disagree with me, and there are lots of others on Newsvine who are similarly inclined. Back when I first encountered you, in your sambonner identity, I found your arguments interesting for a while, but then decided you were not being intellectually honest (whether I was right or not, that’s how it looked to me), and I put you on ignore, just to avoid the irritation. You lost your opportunity to make your case to at least one person, me, who might listen.

If you merely want to lash out at people you feel have been unfair to you, you can, I suppose, keep re-regging and re-regging and keep coming back to flame everyone. If you want to influence people’s perceptions, you can probably do that, too. But you can’t do them both; you have to choose.

Why are you guys wasting your time arguing with a pedophile-defending troll?

Just let trolls sit there in grammy's basement, masturbating in their own feces (or whatever it is that pedophile-defending trolls do in their grammy's basement), until they get bored and go away...

People who bring up the diseased hatred that is anti-Catholic bigotry are not trolls.

If you merely want to lash out at people you feel have been unfair to you, you can, I suppose, keep re-regging and re-regging and keep coming back to flame everyone

The purpose of my participation on this seed is to point out anti- Catholic bigotry. Period.

Your comments about 'statistics' are underwhelming. There are people on Newsvine, there are people on this seed who cannot or will not mention the Catholic Church, in any context, with bringing up 'priests raping little boys'.

They do this despite

1. Priests commit child sexual abuse no more often than the male population in general.

2. Almost all of the cases discussed as if they happened yesterday actually occurred 20-60 years ago, with the period of the most abuse activity being 35-45 years ago.

3. Most of the victims were not little boys.

4. Most of the victims were not raped.

The fact that the people on Newsvine generally ignore all the other instances of child sexual abuse committed by non priests in order to solely obsess about the Catholic Church is on it's face proof of anti-Catholic bigotry.

I have yet to hear anyone logically refute this.

==========

All this drivel about 'rereg', 'troll' etc. is meaningless. This bigotry must be confronted.

The purpose of my participation on this seed is to point out anti- Catholic bigotry.

It's only bigotry is it is undeserved. Name any other organization who covers up for, hides, and otherwise impedes investigations into pedophiles.

Take your time, we'll wait.

There are many instances of members and officials of groups other than the Catholic Church 'covering up' or ignoring child sexual abuse. Anyone who can work a computer can find this information.

I am not going to spend time right now to link and present information that is subject to collapse or deletion.

He is a troll that defends pedophiles.

"Victims and advocates insist that most cases of school employees having sex with children go unreported, even though sexual misconduct is the largest single cause of teacher discipline by the Colorado Department of Education.

The Post reported that one in 14 girls in grades 5 to 8 are sexually abused, based on numbers from the Rape and Incest National Network. In high school the number is 1 in 9 girls. The agency reports that boys are abused at about half the rate of girls.

This column has long alerted readers to the sex scandal in public schools. Sherryll Kraizer, executive director of the Denver-based Safe Child Program and a professional witness in sex abuse trials, has said principals and school teachers mostly ignore laws that require them to report sexual abuse of students. The Fort Collins Coloradoan found this summer that Colorado Department of Education officials have mostly ignored a state law that requires them to notify school districts whenever an educator gets arrested on suspicion of a crime. One sex abuse expert interviewed by The Gazette described a practice in which known abusers are quietly passed along to other schools with glowing referrals or silence, known as "passing the trash."

A surplus of alarming evidence and data, including a federal study pointing to a sex abuse crisis in public schools, has been met with a shortage of comprehensive coverage in the press and public outrage that underwhelms. It’s almost as if nobody cares.

By any serious examination of evidence and data, the sex abuse scandal in public schools today dwarfs anything that ever occurred in Catholic institutions, which had a sex abuse problem that peaked in 1970 with nearly 600 reported cases of sexual abuse in the church nationwide that year.

Today, based on a study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University, the number of reported sexual abuse cases in Catholic institutions nationwide is fewer than 10. That means more children have been sexually abused this year in public schools on the Front Range of Colorado than have been abused in Catholic institutions in all 50 states combined."

He is a troll that defends pedophiles.

Bonos rama

can you respond to 21.53 please. I would love to engage you on the issues raised. Let everyone on this thread see your "ability" to argue your position when you have to use more than one sentence lies.

The quoted passages in 21.57, by the way, are not from a Catholic newspaper or publication. They are from a 2010 editorial in the Colorado Springs Gazette, a daily newspaper with the second largest circulation in Colorado, in other words, the secular press.

Pedophilia is not a crime.

Gifflenet, I want you to tattoo that on your forehead. Just see how long you can walk around in public with that as your defining statement.

ROFL indeed.

It's not my defining statement, it was referring to a blowhard gaffe by someone who was attempting to prove me wrong.

Acting on pedophilia is of course a heinous crime. Pedophilia itself is a psychiatric disorder. I suppose I gave the readers of this thread too much credit for being able to detect the difference.

What we see now is the pathetic recourse of people who cannot defend themselves on substance. They try and change the subject to something that exists entirely in their imaginations.

Why don't you answer 21.53 or 21.57

And to you that justifies the church hiding and obfuscating it's criminals?

Burn them all, no tolerance.

What the church has done wrong speaks for itself. I am referring to anti Catholic bigotry on Newsvine and elsewhere.

I will ask you people for the millionth time - where is your outrage for this topic outside of the Catholic Church? Other than Penn State, which was on television 24 hours a day, we never hear a peep about this topic unless it is to attack the Catholic Church.

No one on this seed can explain that.

gifflenet

Is it anti catholic bigotry to insist that the church give up those it is protecting?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to state that the men in dresses should have known better and done better?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to say when you place near absolute power in a nun's or priest's hands that some will be corrupted by it?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to indicte the church on its handling of this matter?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to call for the prosecution of all who were involved in crimes against children and its cover up to be brought to justice?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to say that the structure of the catholic church must acknowledge and rectify (no pun intended) its sins?

Is it anti catholic bigotry to insist that the religious who most have the equivalent of a master's degree or higher to realize their position requires a standard of conduct above reproach.

Logically refute these questions. Granted children are abused through all levels of society but just because someone else does it does not make it right.

It's not my defining statement

It is now. If you didn't want it to be, you shouldn't have said it.

How about you and I meet outside the grounds of any elementary school in the country, and have this argument through bullhorns, right around 3:00 in the afternoon when all of the parents are picking up their kids?

You willing to say that to a bunch of moms and dads?

Seriously, the absurdities you are willing to utter in defense of your position are beyond explaining.

we never hear a peep about this topic unless it is to attack the Catholic Church.

No one on this seed can explain that.

That's because it's crap. Outrage is there every day, every time a pedophile is caught or accused. I have two little girls, and am VERY sensitive to this topic, I also have a nephew in Catholic school, whom I fear for as well. If you don't see it, it's not because it isn't there, you're pretending it isn't. (feel free to look for my outrage on the stories re: LA schools lately, you'll find it if you even bother looking)

Just like xtians who pretend Muslims don't protest extreme Islam, they do, VERY MUCH SO, just because you don't see it (or claim not to with your eyes wide shut), doesn't mean it isn't there.

Wazup TBM?

GUYS! DNFTT! Please! Don't respond to him, just put him on ignore, he doesn't give a @!$%# because he knows Tyler or Sally is going to come soon to shut him down, he's just trying to incite. He isn't worth getting worked up over.

But, but, but....I can just see his face getting all red and hissy, as he furiously pounds his keyboard trying to manipulate verbiage and statistics to make himself feel better about oppressing women.

I keep expecting that these freaks'll suffer some sort of infarc, and we'll be rid of one more doorstop in the way of Freedom. Perhaps I'm a bit too much of an idealist...?

LOL I like you.

Kozakura, if this guy is a troll he needs to work on his technique. Trolls exist to incite other people to stay stupid things.

Gifflenet trolled himself into putting in print the phrase "Pedophilia is not a crime," under his user ID. And when he realized he'd done it, he doubled-down on it and repeated himself.

I just wanted to make sure he really meant what he said . . . it's a clear cut case of self-trolling. I think it almost deserves to be reposted on Balloon Juice as another internet tradition.

If you don't know what that means, just google "I am aware of all internet traditions."

Gifflenet has joined Vanderleun as a self-shooting foot killer.

True, he's not a real troll, most of those don't believe what they're spouting. I suppose it's more in line with a child throwing a tantrum because he's not getting his way. I do believe though, that he is trying to drag others down with him. I'm sure he knows full well that neither Tyler or Sally buy the "he threw mud first" line, so it's all a matter of trying to get anyone to throw mud back. Either way, the remedy is the same.

I live in Chicago, the political cesspool of the nation. I think your statements are over-exaggerated but valid. A person who breaks the law should be indicted and if convicted, pay for his crime(s). Regardless of their position in society.

Do you remember the Cardinal Bernadine tragedy. He was a Cardinal in Chicago. He was accused for years of sexually abusing an adolescent. Cardinal Bernadine was fighting cancer and fought these allegations. Just before Cardinal Bernadine died, the accuser admitted that he made the whole thing up. There was no abuse. The accuser admitted he did it for political reasons. Meanwhile the media and the public put the Cardinal and the Church through the grinder of public opinion for false accusations against them

The church's concern over contraceptives and lack of concern over pedophilia highlights the sickness that goes right to its core.

yeah-how about it.

Where was all this moral indignation when the priests were raping little boys? The church knew and just moved the pedophiles to another parish.

They should have worried about child rape as much as they worry about contraceptives for non catholic employees.

Your ignorance of the Catholic Church and bias are shining brightly

Beyond belief...I have to think that committing a sex crime while telling the child that this is what God is like... both a crime against God...(pompous piety) and the minor at the same time...need we a clearer definition of evil?

Exactly, Doby. Pedophile priests and their defenders show that the entire institution is corrupt. Imagine the evil heart of the person that defends it and won't even condemn this priest or his action.

That's right. Priest are human too. Created with all the human frailties as every one else. They are just like politicians, public school teachers, coaches, family members, union chiefs, actors, journalists, ...

Except they are always raping kids and their superiors are always hiding it.

AND on top of that, they put t hemselves up on a pedestal as "called by god". So now god calls pedophiles to the priesthood? What a sick institution.

Now, a little off-topic. I think someone has taken to registering MORE than one rereg account at a time now. Well, we'll have to see about that.

Except they are always raping kids and their superiors are always hiding it.

AND on top of that, they put t hemselves up on a pedestal as "called by god". So now god calls pedophiles to the priesthood? What a sick institution.

And you are always debating like a 10 year old.

You don't know any facts and don't know where to find them. We have established this over and over and over and over again.

................

Whatever you say... We'll see what Tyler and Sally have to say about it.

Tyler and Sally can't make an honest person or decent debater out of you.

more than one rereg acct? what ever that means, was it directed at me? I can assure you I have only this acct.

Anyways, my point being, priests are just human, and unfortunately, the days when you could have a decent roll model, outside your family, are pretty much gone

No, chumbt, that was not directed at you.

Tyler and Sally can't make an honest person or decent debater out of you.

And I guess Catholicism can't make honest people out of their priests OR their defenders of pedophilia.

There is no reason for anyone to respect this site, let alone follow it's rules. NV has been overrun with unreasonable ideologically driven atheist zealots who have ruined the site. It is common knowledge.

There is no reason for anyone to respect the church let alone follow its rules. It has been overrun with pedophiles and their defenders. It's common knowledge.

That is the level of your response - parrot what you hear.

You are wrong! Those other pedophiles would be ordinary nasty people, while the so called Catholic Priest are claiming to be pious and holy as well as pure in mind body and spirit.

Where were they leading those children when they went down into the valley of the shadow of death.

Certainly not to their GOD.

What do you expect from someone that insists their pedophiliac ways isn't a crime, Fed up with Republicans?

Show me any text that says pedophilia is a crime.

Can you think straight or not?

Disgusting attitude.

And I can think straight.

You don't know what my attitude is, other than that I am sick and tired of people who hate the Catholic Church so much they are totally obsessed with the .025 percent of the child sex abuse and ignore the .975. That attitude is not disgusting , it is proper. Your attitude is the disgusting one.

Has any one ever watched crime or prison shows about pedophiles, or even watch shows like "to catch a predator??"

Ever notice that the only ones that defend pedophiles are the pedophiles themselves?

Food for thought.

The problem with your poor excuse for logic is that no one here is defending pedophiles.

Bingo, ohiogal.

Get some professional help giffle. (talking to a priest doesn't count)

Or if it's too late, just turn yourself in.

gifflenet

Show me any text that says pedophilia is a crime.

There are days when you feel something is seriously wrong and happening as we speak, The worst days are when one is feeling powerless to act.

I'm feeling this is one of the worst days.

And I think you are an idiot. Pedophilia is a medical diagnosis. Sexual contact with a child is a crime.

Oh John...

Just go away.

(But please try and stay away from children if you're having "the thoughts" again, K?)

One can now see the pathetic recourse of people who have no honest or logical answer. They make up silly, childish lies.

I have not defended any pedophile or child sexual abuser, whether it be a priest or anyone else. Show me one post on this thread where I defended a pedophile. Just put up the number of the post.

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny...

Take your pills and calm down, before they call the charge nurse back in...

(and someone else already quoted your post a few posts up. I know, I know... readin's fer elitists, right?)

Get back to me when you can make some sense.

Awfully defensive for a protector of pedophiles...excuse me, for a protector of those who have sexual contact with a child.

The sense being made here, is not being made by you gifflenet, your CoH violations notwithstanding.

The problem with your poor excuse for logic is that no one here is defending pedophiles.

Says the one that is defending pedophiles. This ain't an article about catholism as a faith, this is an article about pervo priests raping children. And you are defending them. And to top it off, you keep screaming how pedophilia isn't a crime.

JohnRussell/sambonner is one sick ass bastard.

Why are you talking so idiotically? you are embarrassing yourself.

Where did you see me defend pedophiles? Give the post # or shut the duck up.

Answer 21.53 or 21.57

Show me any text that says pedophilia is a crime

Dude, NAMBLA is grateful for your efforts to legitimize their organization.

But, everyone knows that acting on pedophilia is a crime, in virtually every nation on the planet. Ergo, pedophilia is a crime . . . it is not hard to figure out.